Why not just skip the Kabuki/BS phase where Congressional Dems try to sneak de facto health care for illegals through while showily saying the opposite, and just immediately agree to verification--avoiding the bleeding interval in which the ruse is sniffed out by the Right?Ding. In order to snuff out the potential "death panel"-ization of illegal immigrant care, the Democrats could go an extra step to make it clearer that the bill will include a provision more explicitly designed to weed out illegal immigrant from receiving government-subsidized care.
Two reasons. 1) Big picture: The most important thing here is to extend health care to uninsured citizens, regulate insurance companies, and put reforms and taxes in place to control health inflation and the deficit. This is not worth losing over the degree to which we verify citizenship and prevent illegal care. 2) If Democrats lose health care over immigration, then they don't just lose health care -- they also lose immigration reform. Once Republicans stoke fears about illegal aliens snatching up all their taxpayer-provided Medicaid subsidies, the debate over immigration will have already been poisoned by the notion that Americans will not support reform that incorporates illegals. By nipping the illegal care issue in the bud, and strengthening the provisions to bar illegals from receiving subsidies, the Obama administration saves its gunpowder to fight for immigration reform at a later date.
There isn't any way to prevent illegals from using the American hospitals short of getting them out of the country. Of course they will use up our health dollars. They do already, just as they use up our social, educational, judicial and penal dollars.
Given the Democrats reliance on Hispanic voters there is just no way any bill they write will make any serious effort to deny coverage to illegal
immigrants therefore there is no reason to support any Democrat healthcare initiative if you believe illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay in this country.
Illegal pay taxes Argument!
There's the "illegal aliens pay tons of taxes" argument. Sure, they all pay real estate taxes (in rent) and sales taxes (most states). Those working on the books (typically using stolen Social Security numbers) pay FICA and, perhaps, income taxes. But they're mostly ill-educated, prolific breeders, low-skilled and pay little or no taxes connected to their working -- in fact, most claim the Earned Income Tax Credit, i.e. negative income tax! If a family with both parents working has two kids in school, that's at least $15k/year just for schooling, way more than the taxes on, say, $35k/year aggregate income.
Robert Rector at the Heritage Foundation has done the systematic accounting on all this. A typical household headed by a low-skilled illegal alien is a net drain of about $20k/year for the rest of us, year after year. (Low-skilled Americans are a similar burden, but they're part of the national family, not gate crashers from other societies.)
Illegal Bad..Amnesty good Argument!
There's the "illegal immigration is bad, but make them citizens and problem solved" argument. Nope. If that were the case, legalizing (i.e. amnestying) the illegal aliens would solve the problem. But they'd still be (on average) low-skilled workers whose burden on the rest of us would continue. In fact, once legal they'd be able to access more public benefits programs, so their cost to the rest of us would actually rise substantially. In addition to bringing in their relatives under chain immigration in a never ending chain! In short, all of the problems of mass illegal immigration are shared & increased by mass amnestying them.
Then there is they are all God,s children argument.
Isn't everyone God,s children? If so, then guess the open borders crowd are saying everyone and anyone has the right to Invade this Nation, waving their flags, demand their rights, while feasting at the trough of public welfare and Kill, Rape and Rob thousands of American citizens each year!
There are 100,s of millions probably billions from India, China, Africa, etc. that would like to immigrate to the USA. If it ok for Latinos to pour across our borders then unless the open borders crowd are racist it should be ok for any and all of the world people no matter their Education, Religion, Race, Criminal convictions, Diseases, or Terrorist ties to invade this nation & be rewarded with American citizenship!
There's the "the U.S. stole the southwest" argument.
Well, the land in dispute was "owned" by Spain for a couple of centuries. Then by Mexico for about 25 years. During these periods, there weren't more than a few thousand Spaniards or Mexicans in the entire territory. It's been owned by the U.S. for about 160 years now, much longer than Mexico's reign. And the U.S. has actually done something with the land, made it habitable for tens of millions. The difference between American and Mexican "twin cities" straddling the border is like night and day, yet the land is obviously the same. It's not the dirt that's important, it's the people. Put another way, if culture didn't matter, Mexico and Central America would be paradise.
There's the "lettuce" argument
We'll be paying $50/head if we don't have illegal aliens working in the fields. As Phil Martin, ag economist at UC Davis shows, the field labor cost in a $1 head of lettuce is about 6 cents. Triple those wages and Americans will do the jobs. (They're not career positions. They're seasonal jobs for young people, starting in the world of work. I have did similarly menial jobs.) And you'll be paying 10% more for lettuce and other produce. Do you spend $1,000/year on produce? OK, you'll pay $100 more.
The lettuce argument also parallels that for the retention of slavery.
Immigrant Argument!
There's the "everyone's an immigrant except for the 'Native Americans'" argument. Well, the American Indians didn't sprout from the land, they came across the Bering land bridge from Asia. So if the criterion is "You're an immigrant if you had an ancestor who immigrated here," then American Indians are immigrants, too.
In that case, "immigrant" is no longer a useful word, since Everyone's an immigrant.
Then there is the straw man Argument this Nation cannot afford to deport 12 million invading Criminals when the problem is we cannot afford to not deport them!
Never noting if our Corrupt/Pandering/Lawless politicians had abide by our Constitution and enforced our Laws there would not be 12 millions to deport. Even worse, there is not 12 million but between 20 and 30 million but the government prefers to lie and down play the number! ( Same as the 1986 Amnesty was more than double the government estimate, so will this one be) At any rate deportation would save billions in the long run over what they will cost this Nation in welfare in the coming years. Every person with less that a high school education cost a average of 55 thousand over their life time, so apply that times the 12 million plus all their relatives & their relatives in a never ending chain & deportation would be a great bargain and save trillions in the coming years! But deportations is not necessary, just close our borders and enforcing our Laws with E-Verify. Fine companies, imprison executives and cut out the welfare they will self deport. No jobs, No Welfare equals no Illegal Aliens!
The flood of immigrants drives wages and living conditions in our central cities toward those of the Third World & has already destroyed Calif..
This tidal wave imposes sprawl, gridlock, pollution, and environmental damage on our metropolitan areas & Nation.
Immigrant families needing services overwhelm our schools, taxpayer-funded health care facilities, and other public agencies.
Those requiring services don’t assimilate and, instead, expect to be served in their native languages.
American civic culture frays as each ethnic group establishes its own grievance lobby and pushes for preferences.
Communicable diseases such as tuberculosis (new, drug-resistant strains) return & New diseases like Mexican Swine flu break out!
Shortages of water and other resources loom, especially in immigration-blitzed Southwest.
Most that come across our open borders come from countries where, Crime, Corruption, Poverty, Misery, Anti-education, and hate for Americans has existed for centuries and is normal. Should anyone be surprised they bring those same family values across the border with them?
Yes, but....if you agree that providing the un/underinsured care in places other than ERs is one way to decrease the cost of health care, the problem of illegals needs to be addressed. In San Francisco, it has been published that 67% of nonreimbursed care is to illegals. Many working in the very supportive SF health care system (lots of free/subsidized care) think the number is higher. Probably, similar numbers occur in all of CA, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, Fla. By some accounts illegals account for as much as 1/3 of the uninsured in the whole country.
This is a problem that is overdue for a solution. The burden on the education system is similar.
My preferred solution: provide a path to legal access for those already here (behind those who have waited patiently); get a realistic ID system (eg something with a biologic identifier,that cannot be forged/faked) that employers must use. Then fine employers that flaunt the system significant amounts that are dedicated to paying the costs of this population.
California the Golden state, American future, is fast becoming the poster child for an bankrupt third world State!
An unholy alliance of Socialist Democrat politicians, Unions, and Illegal Aliens supporters are feasting at the trough of tax payers paid benefits while taxing & regulating business and the tax paying public into poverty.
The pandering of Left Wing Democrat Politicians to their constituency of Unions, Illegal Aliens and open border supporters, are driving business and citizens to other states & countries, while leaving the parasites & welfare leeches in an increasing bankrupt, crime ridden, dysfunctional state!
For years California has ignored economics 101 and imported Criminals, Uneducated Peons, and poverty from Mexico, which increased Medical, Welfare, Crime, Prison, etc. & adding a estimated 10 to 16 billion per year to Calif. State expense to support the invading horde of Illegal Aliens while exporting business and educated tax payers.
Like all Socialist & Marxist States the results have been a astronomical increase in social welfare, schooling, prison cost etc. and a lowing of Living standards, Education standards, Tax receipts & finally Bankruptcy.
Failure to abide by our Constitution against invasion & enforce our Immigration laws and constraints on wages and benefits for public employees will result in turning the Golden State into MexiCalif and the end of the Calif. Dream and the beginning of the MexiCalif. Nightmare!
The policies of Obama and Wash. DC Democrats are intent on following Calif. policies and are resulting in the same socialist process across American.
Amnesty & Citizenship as a reward for their invasion of the USA, will result in the rest of the USA turned into a Spanish speaking third world cesspool, modeled on Mexico and follow California into a polluted, over populated, Spanish speaking third world Nation of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, Cruelly & Misery!
This will result in a population depending on Welfare and the Democrat party, thus assuring the lock on power for the Socialist Democrat party of the United States of Mexico!
Banning illegal immigrants from the health care reform bill will be shortsighted in my opinion since they may end up costing us more in the long run since the emergency room will now become their "public option." Federal law already mandates that all people that show up in the emergency room has to be treated, so I don't know how banning them will really work. http://www.mydochub.com
"...the debate over immigration will have already been poisoned by the notion that Americans will not support reform that incorporates illegals."
There's nothing notional about it. Americans will not support reform that incorporates illegals. Period.
"By nipping the illegal care issue in the bud, and strengthening the provisions to bar illegals from receiving subsidies, the Obama administration saves its gunpowder to fight for immigration reform at a later date."
Nice theory. As others have pointed out, there's no way in hell the Democrats can do that, politically. It will sunder their coaltion. So, they go the usual DC route--kabuki theater bullshit. Make all kinds of promises about keeping illegals away from government-paid health care, but don't actually put anything in the bill that would do that, and hope that this doesn't turn out to be a big problem down the road.
I am a medical doctor, and admit illegal immigrants to our hospital every day. There is no expectation that they will pay for their care. The social workers rush to sign them up for Medicaid ASAP - it is the only payment the hospital will receive ( the doctors care for them for free).
Conversely, the legal residents ( immigrant and non-immigrant)are expected to pay for their care. They are billed and sent to collections, often w/ devastating financial consequences.
Despite what legislators tell you, illegal immigrants will continue to receive 100% free medical care, under any of the proposed systems.
1. It is illegal to refuse to care for a patient in the ER ( emergent or not)
2. It is illegal to transfer a patient, requiring any type of med. treatment, from the ER or the hospital floors to any other site, based on their ability to pay.
Why shouldn't this subject be raised and discussed clearly and honestly?
It would seem kind of difficult at this point after Democrats killed the Heller Amendment, which would have added a verification of citizenship/immigration status, on a straight party-line vote to now go back and say that they’re serious about making sure that illegal aliens aren’t being enrolled in a new taxpayer funded health benefit or getting subsidized “insurance.”
Re: the “pay now or pay later argument.” I don’t disagree that we’re all paying through cost-shifting onto private insurance and people who pay for their own health care for anyone (including illegal aliens) who go to the ER and receive uncompensated care.
However we also pay for cost-shifting for Medicare and Medicaid patients because those programs largely pay less (about 60-70% of the costs IIRC) than private insurance. That’s a lot more expensive because it’s a lot more treatment for a lot more patients being only partially paid for with the rest being cost shifted onto the rest of us.
Since Obama and Congressional Democrats have proposed cutting the reimbursement rates (again) to pay for their new “public option” and it is likely that the new “public option” will be paying lower reimbursement rates, enrolling more people into a government plan that shifts costs onto private patients is only going to make this cost-shifting problem worse.
Not to mention what happens when people who currently have private insurance get dumped into the “public option.” More costs being shifted onto a smaller number of private patients.
So as far as cost-shifting is concerned, ObamaCare would likely take a small to medium-size problem and make it a far greater and more expensive problem.
Don’t let them fool you! While several version of the healthcare bill have included healthcare for illegal aliens it is likely that this provision will be scrubbed from the bill as part of compromise to get the bill passed. However what people don’t realized is that when this administration passes amnesty this large illegal population will no longer be illegal and therefore eligible for any public healthcare program.
This is a simple issue, you are either for open borders or you are not. All other rhetoric on this issue is just bunk. Here on the east end of long island illegal Hispanics are as thick as untrimmed hedges. Also this is not a matter of racial profiling Hispanics but a matter of probability and that is a fact. This illegal population is a drain on our country at all levels and they already dictated political policy.
Do not think theses people are genuine immigrants because they are not. They are encouraged by their native countries to usurp our laws and our political system. They believe they have a right to be here irrespective of our laws, and if you don’t believe me just ask them as they will gladly tell you and they will also tell you there is nothing you can do about it and sadly they are right.
Our government fails the most basic and primary task & duty of government, to protect this Nation and its Citizens from invasion and enforce its laws.
They refuse to abide by our Constitution, refuse to enforce our Immigration Laws and refuse to honor their Oath of Office!
Our Government, past & present, Republican & Democrat, have allowed the invasion of 20 to 30 million criminals and uneducated peons which is the largest invasion of any Nation, at any time, by any means & in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution.
This refusal to abide by our Constitution or enforce our Immigration Laws should be classified as Treason of the most foul kind, & as grounds for impeachment & trials for Treason!
Not only have they allowed the invasion, they force American tax payers to pay Billions on Billions of dollars to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders numerous children, and free medical care, at the same time the invading horde break numerous laws and massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture and standard of living while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens at an rate the terrorist can only dream about.
Recent statements in Mexico from both President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary something needs to be done. "Our inability to prevent weapons from being illegally smuggled across the border to arm these criminals causes the deaths of police officers, soldiers, and civilians," Hillary whined.
But no mention, whines, concern or care that their refusal to stop the Massive Invasion of Illegal Aliens pouring across our borders or enforce our immigration laws that causes an estimated 25 Americans deaths per day and 10,s of thousands victims of Assault, Robberies, Rapes, Identify thief, and other assorted crimes committed by the invading horde of Illegal Aliens from Mexico on American citizens each year!
It is a telling indictment & shows their Empathy & Compassion of our Politicians & their priorities are not for the American citizens when they express more concern over Mexicans deaths mostly connected to the Drug trade, than the murders, havoc & crimes of Illegal Aliens against American Citizens!
The Democrats view the invading horde of Criminals and Uneducated third world rejects as Undocumented Welfare Democrats & the Republicans as Undocumented Slave labor for their Pay Masters in the Chamber of Commerce & Businesses!
Most of our Politicians in Wash. DC are wading knee deep in innocent American blood and suffering because they put Self Interest ahead of the interest of American Citizens & the future of this Nation!
The Citizens of this Nation have not sacrificed with blood, sweat & tears for over 200 years & obeyed the Laws of the land, paid the taxes, and fought the wars & built this Nation to see Corrupt politicians turn this Nation into the United States of Mexico without a shot being fired, to serve their demented, nefarious goals and lust for power!